Tuesday, April 29, 2014
High Plains Moochers
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/28/opinion/krugman-high-plains-moochers.html?_r=0. DUE 5 MAY 2014. Do you believe that Cliven Bundy is a "Libertarian Hero" or a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage" (as Krugman describes him)? What do you think about Bundy's claim that his people were there BEFORE the law came into effect so he doesn't have to pay? What externality is being caused by Bundy through his actions?
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I believe that Cliven Bundy is a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage." I think that Bundy is trying to get out of paying the fees for breaking the rules. He knew that it was a federal land, but Cliven Bundy does not believe in government. The Bundy Fiasco was a byproduct of the dumbing down that seems ever more central to the way America's right operates. In effect, the government is using its ownership of land to subsidize ranchers and mining companies at taxpayers' expense. The trouble is that such beliefs are fundamentally indefensible in the modern world, which is rife with what economists call externalities costs that private actions impose on others, but which people have no financial incentive to avoid. The whole Bundy affair will cause at least some of the people who backed him to engage in self-reflection, and ask how they ended up lending support, even briefly, to someone like that. Bundy says he will pay his debt to the proper form of government. However, he will only pay it to the county sheriff or to the state governor of Nevada, neither of whom have the right to ask him to pay because they do not own the land.
ReplyDeleteCliven Bundy should be viewed as a Libertarian Hero despite his racial comment. I feel that he was in the heat of the moment and did not think things through. I agree with Bundy’s claim that his people were there before the law came into effect. Yes Krugman has a good point with the private property comparison but I feel it was not concerning this situation. In relation to the “Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage” remark, would it also refer to the Native Americans that do not have to pay taxes for certain areas of land that belonged to their tribe? Would they have some type of discriminating nickname as well? They were there before the government was established and they had white men destroy their peaceful civilization. So I feel that is what Bundy is exemplifying. Externally Bundy is just accumulating negativity for something that should have been avoided initially. He is trying to stand up against “the man” but is digging himself into a bigger grave. Yes he is trying to make a point but if he falls after making the point, the government will do their best to discipline him well.
ReplyDeleteCliven Bundy should be viewed as a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage". Bundy is just like every other rancher and is in no way above the law. He knew it was federal land that the animals were grazing on. As to Bundy's claim in regards to his people being on the land before the law was in effect is understandable. It is not fair to them and their animals if a law is telling them to pick up and move in a moment's notice. As badly as Bundy does not want to listen or agree to the Feds, they need to come to an agreement. Either his cattle moves or he pays the taxes that he has not been paying these past few years. Externally, Bundy is getting many supporters because of the sudden interest that the Federal Government has towards Bundy. All of this negativity is making people fight against the Government even more.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Cliven Bundy should be viewed as a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage". He is no different than any of the other ranchers and should be required to follow the law as everyone else does. If his cattle were grazing on someone elses property, he is responsible for it. I think that Bundy's claim that he was there before the law came into effect is an excuse to try to get out of paying and still keep his cattle. I believe that he should be required to pay the grazing taxes for the years he hasn't paid. Many people such as Sean Hannity from fox news are supporting Bundy because it gives an attempt to demonize government and an attempt at anti-government support.
ReplyDeleteI do not think that Cliven Bundy is a "Libertarian Hero", he is more like a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage" as Krugman says. The fact the the cattle he owns are roaming the property, it does not mean he is on his land and is free from paying the corresponding taxes. Bundy's claim is invalid because it does not matter if his people was there before, it was still government property. Bundy is trying to convince others that he does not have to pay, when in reality he is trying to get out of the whole situation of not paying for his cattle grazing on the government property. Bundy 's action Is cause by his ignorance. The people that are supporting Bundy are as well, they are people who are anti-government. The people see the government as a negative thing, and want others to see their views.
ReplyDeleteCliven Bundy a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage". I believe that once a law is out in place, after a certain amount of time you should at least ease into it. Like if paying a new tax, you should slowly pay little buy little untill paying the full amount. Since the whole bundy affair has started, he has gained many supporters and is slowly beginning to trick the less educated people into believing in his cause.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Cliven Bundy is a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage". Bundy's claim that his people were there before the law came into effect so he doesn't have to pay is a little out of hand. I understand that his people were there before the law was put into effect but he still needs to pay the tax as does everyone else. The externality that is being caused by Bundy through his actions is he is gaining followers and people who think they understand the claim but are uneducated enough to realize its unfair. He wants to get out of paying the tax but still keep his cattle. If all the other ranchers have to pay the taxes then Bundy should as well.
ReplyDeleteCliven Bundy I believe should be viewed as a libertarian hero. Though I do not agree with the claim that his people were there before the came into effect argument. Just because you do something before a law restricts does not mean that you don’t have to follow the new law. I do commend Bundy however on his bravery to take on the government. Often the government tries to use their power to scare people into submission. They had snipers and helicopters surround Bundy’s land just because he did not pay grazing fees, I believe that is going overboard. Rather than cower in fear he took up arms and would have been willing to fight against something that he found to be unjust, though in this case he is not necessarily right. Externally, Bundy is getting many supporters because of the sudden interest that the Federal Government has towards Bundy. All of this actions are making people join him to be willing to fight against the Government even more.
ReplyDeleteCliven Bundy should be viewed as a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage". Bundy is just like every other rancher and is in no way above the law. He knew it was federal land that the animals were grazing on. As to Bundy's claim in regards to his people being on the land before the law was in effect is understandable.He is no different than any of the other ranchers and should be required to follow the law as everyone else does. If his cattle were grazing on someone elses property, he is responsible for it. I think that Bundy's claim that he was there before the law came into effect is an excuse to try to get out of paying and still keep his cattle.The externality that is being caused by Bundy through his actions is he is gaining followers and people who think they understand the claim but are uneducated enough to realize its unfair. He wants to get out of paying the tax but still keep his cattle. He'll only pay it to the county sheriff or to the state governor of Nevada, neither of whom have the right to ask him to pay because they do not own the land.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Cliven Bundy should be viewed as a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage". He is no different than any of the other ranchers and should be required to follow the law as everyone else does. If his cattle were grazing on someone elses property, he is responsible for it.The externality that is being caused by Bundy through his actions is he is gaining followers and people who think they understand the claim but are uneducated enough to realize its unfair. He wants to get out of paying the tax but still keep his cattle.
ReplyDeleteAll of this actions are making people join him to be willing to fight against the Government even more.
I believe Bundy is a Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage as described by Kungman. Just because he was on the land before the law was effect doesn't mean anything, when the law came into effect Bundy should have then followed the law . You have a lot of people following Mr. Bundy without getting a full understanding of the law that was in place by the federal government and believe that he is in the right and want to fight the against the federal government.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Cliven Bundy is a “Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage”, as Krugman describes him. He isn’t a special rancher and different from everyone else. He should be required to follow the law just like everyone else. Just because he is not physically on the property, but his property (the cattle) are roaming on it, does not mean that he can be exempt from these taxes. Bundy’s claim should not make a difference because it should not matter if his people were there before, the property is still government owned. All he wants is to find a way out of paying these taxes. People who also see the government as a bad idea would support him just because they are anti-government.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Cliven Bundy should be viewed as a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage", he is no different than any of the other ranchers and should be required to follow the law like everyone else. I believe that Bundy's claim that he was there before the law came into effect is a way to try to find a way out of the problem to be able to keep his cattle. The only other people that support him, are people that don't like the government, just like him.
ReplyDeleteI believe Cliven Bundy should be viewed as a “Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage." He is the same as other ranchers so he needs to follow the law just as the others do. Since he was using federal land, he needs to take responsibility for his actions. His claim that he shouldn’t have to pay since he was there before the law was in effect makes sense. It’s not fair to people if the law comes into place all of the sudden and now they have to get up and move without any notice. Since Bundy is so stubborn, the Fed is going to have to compromise with him. The externality being caused is that Bundy is getting supporters due to the attention the Federal Government is giving him. These supporters are also fighting against the Government due to all the negative attention.
ReplyDeleteI think that Bundy should be viewed as "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage" because he's not any different than the other ranchers, so he must follow the law just like the other ranchers do. Bundy's claim that he was there before the law came into effect wasn't fair. I believe that Bundy should have to follow the law just like everyone else, there is no "grandfathering in" with this law. It's like saying that you can shoot somebody because you had a gun before the law of no shooting was made, it's not right. Since Bundy is so stubborn, the fed is going to have to figure something out and compromise with him. I'm not sure how well that is going to work out. But he is going to do anything that he can to not pay the taxes that everybody else has to pay. There should be a consequence because he shouldn't get away with this.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Cliven Bundy is a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage". Bundy claims his people were there before the law went into effect so he believes he doesn't have to pay. Even though his people were there before the law he still needs to pay the tax like everyone else. The externality that is being caused by Bundy through his actions is he is gaining followers and people who think they understand the claim but arent educated enough to know its unfair. He wants to get out of paying the tax but still keep his cattle. He has to pay like all the other ranchers
ReplyDeleteI believe that Cliven Bundy is described as a Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage. Bundy believes he is above the law and is trying to use any tactic to get out of paying property taxes for land he does not know. Although he did own the animals on the land, it does not give Bundy the right to do anything he pleases. I think Bundy's claim that his people were there before the law came into effect so he doesn't have to pay is totally ridiculous but understandable. Looking at it from the government's point of view, I would think he is making up excuses in order to not pay for federal land. But if I were in Bundy's position, I would also bring up the fact that before there was a law put into place, nothing was going wrong with not paying the taxes. Externally, Bundy is getting both positive and negative responses from the public. Supporters believe in Bundy's rights and the people against him believe in the people's rights as a whole.
ReplyDeleteCliven Bundy should be viewed as a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage". He should be required to follow the law just like everyone else. Just because he is not physically on the property, but his cattle are roaming on it, does not mean that he can be exempt from these taxes. I understand that his people were there before the law was put into effect but he still needs to pay the tax as does everyone else. Externally, i believe Cliven Bundy is getting many supporters because of the sudden interest that the Federal Government has towards Cliven Bundy.
ReplyDeleteI'd say that Cliven Bundy is a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage". The fact that Bundy claims that he doesn't have to pay because he was there first, is all craziness to me. Even though he was there first, it still does not serves as a reason for him not having to pay, especially when his cattle is roaming all around the government property. The externality caused by Bundy through his actions is that he is gaining followers, ones that dislike the government.
ReplyDeleteCliven Bundy should be viewed as the "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage". What makes me really sick about today's society are these one-percenters and politicians who think they are above the law. Cliven Bundy isn't any different from them. He should just pay like everyone else. Bundy's claim in reference to his people being on the land before the law was in effect is sort of understandable, but his cattle was on federal land, this still doesn't excuse him from taxes. The externality being creates by Bundy is through gaining followers by whose who appose the government (eg. Tea Partiers, One-Percenters, and Bigots).
ReplyDeleteI believe that Cliven Bundy is a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage." I think that Bundy is trying to get out of paying the fees for breaking the rules. He knew that it was a federal land, but Cliven Bundy does not believe in government. The Bundy Fiasco was a byproduct of the dumbing down that seems ever more central to the way America's right operates. In effect, the government is using its ownership of land to subsidize ranchers and mining companies at taxpayers' expense. The trouble is that such beliefs are fundamentally indefensible in the modern world, which is rife with what economists call externalities costs that private actions impose on others, but which people have no financial incentive to avoid. I would also bring up the fact that before there was a law put into place, nothing was going wrong with not paying the taxes. Externally, Bundy is getting both positive and negative responses from the public. Supporters believe in Bundy's rights and the people against him believe in the people's rights as a whole.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Cliven Bundy should be viewed as a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage" I agree with Bundy’s claim that his people were there before the law came into effect. but that doesn't give him a reason not to pay. hes is responsible for his cattle roaming around other property and should be paying. The externality that is being caused by Bundy through his actions is that he is gaining followers to try and people who think they understand the claim, so he can get out of paying taxes. just like any other rancher has to pay so does Bundy.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Bundy should be viewed as a libertarian. But, I do not want to make a statement that is "somewhat" true or not true. Im not saying Mr.Bundy is right or wrong, all that I'm saying is that he is what he is. Sure, not paying taxes is pretty stupid but to believe that someone who owns a piece of land for hundreds of years and then to have the federal government come in and say pay your fees on your own land?? That to me is just beyond stupid. There are some things that I agree and disagree with. First, bundy needs to keep an eye on his cattle. Second, his followers need to understand what's really going on, not just an excuse to protest the fed gov. Lastly, if you own something for a very long period of time. What makes you think that a person or legal entity can just come in and say "pay me for the land you owe". This isn't the italian mob like back in Chicago. There is no big brother/bully "protecting" you or leaving you alone before you get "whacked" as we say..
ReplyDeleteCliven Bundy is obviously a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage" and the right wing people are exaggerating what he actually is by calling him a hero. He most likely knew the land was government owned and wanted to try his luck on how long he can use it before they notice. He is causing a problem and being difficult to comply with the law because he is trying to avoid paying the fee. Some of the externalities that will be caused is the republican party looking bad for supporting such a person and also his supporters.
ReplyDeleteCliven Bundy should be viewed as the Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage. Calling him a hero is completely crazy. His claim that his people were there before the law came into effect is outrageous. Just because his "people" were there doesn't mean that they are exempt from new laws being placed on the land. It's as if I killed someone before there was a law against killing and then trying to say I shouldn't be tried because I killed someone before there was a law against it. The externalities being caused by this is that people who don't want government are starting to follow him.
ReplyDeleteI do not think that Cliven Bundy is a "Libertarian Hero", he is more like a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage" as Krugman says. He most likely knew the land was government owned and wanted to try his luck on how long he can use it before they notice. he is trying to avoid paying the fee. Some of the externalities that will be caused is the republican party looking bad for supporting such a person and also his supporters.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Cliven Bundy is a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage" as Krugman describes him because really, he's no different than the other ranchers, he needs to follow the law like every one else does. I do not think that Bundy's claim that his people were there BEFORE the law came into effect so he doesn't have to pay. It is really unfair. The externality that is being caused by Bundy through his actions is that he is gaining followers and people who think they understand the claim but are educated enough to realize that the claim is not on their best interest. Bundy wants to get out of paying the tax but still keep his cattle.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Bundy is a welfare queen of the purple sage as described by Kungman. When the law came into effect he should have followed it. There are a lot of people that follow him wtihout fully analyzing or understanding the law that was established by the federal government. They believe he is right and want against the government. I think he should be paying the grazing taxes and some support it because it is going against the government otherwise known as anti-government support.
ReplyDeleteI think that Bundy is wrong. He is claiming the land as his own even though it is not. If he is going to use it as his own then he needs to buy it and pay tax on it just like every other land owning person in America. However if he doesn't want to do this he should remove his cattle from the land. The government should not be able to take his cows and sell them though. They should have him remove them or levy penalties on him for using their land.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Bundy is a “Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage” like Krugman describes him as because is no different than any other person that owns land, which means he should abide by the laws just as everyone else has. Because his cattle are the one's on the other private properties owned by the government and not him physically, Bundy believes that he should not have to pay the taxes put on him, which is ridiculous because the cattle are his property and he is responsible for them, it's kinda like having kids I think, just because the kids(cattle) run off and do something you are held responsible(Bundy). He is just trying to find a way to not pay these taxes and his actions can and probably will lead to more people supporting him and the idea of no government.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Krugman statement that treating Mr. Burdy as some jind of libetarian hero is in fact crazy. I believe that Cliven Bundy should be viewed as a "welfare queen of the purple sage." It's obious that Mr. Burdy is trying to avoid paying fees for breaking the rules. I believe that he has the same worth as any other rancher, therefore he should should be treated the same as those who do have to pay taxes. As for his claim that his people were there "before" the law came into effect so he doesn't have to pay, I strongly disagree with this notion because the moment a law has been passed I think it should be followed by everyone, no one should be an exception. Everyone should be affected by it wether it is posditive or negative. Overall, he should be required to pay taxes he did not pay for the past years. The externality that is being caused by Bundy trough his actions is that he is gainning followers; people think they understand his claim but in reality they unaware of Bundy's stuborness and the conflict this whole situation can create.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Cliven Bundy is exactly as Krugman describes him to be (a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage". I believe that Cliven Bundy's claim is slightly valid but that should make absolutely no difference and I believe it would be completely unfair if he didnt have to pay it. If he truly has an issue paying it then maybe he needs to get rid of his cattle or put them into another place. The externality being caused from the situation is that there are a ton of people coming and supporting him due to all of the attention the government is giving him. most of these guys lack any knowledge on the situation which makes the situation semi worse. He just needs to get over thinking its free and be like every other rancher in the united states and just pay his taxes.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Cliven Bundy is a “Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage”, as Krugman describes him. He isn’t a special rancher and different from everyone else. He should be required to follow the law just like everyone else. Just because he is not physically on the property, but his property (the cattle) are roaming on it, does not mean that he can be exempt from these taxes. Bundy’s claim should not make a difference because it should not matter if his people were there before, the property is still government owned. All he wants is to find a way out of paying these taxes. People who also see the government as a bad idea would support him just because they are anti-government.
ReplyDeleteCliven Bundy should be viewed as a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage". He is no different from any of the other ranchers and therefore should be required to follow the law as the other ranchers.he is responsible for his cattle grazing on someone else's property.Bundy's actions cause the externality that make him gain followers through his actions, and people who think they understand the claim but are uneducated so they do not realize that it is unfair. He wants to get out of paying the tax but continue to keep his cattle.
ReplyDeleteAll of this actions encourage people join him to be willing to fight against the Government more than ever.
I believe that Bundy is a “Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage” Krugman describes him as because is no different than any other person that owns land, which means he should abide by the laws just as everyone else has. Because his cattle are the one's on the other private properties owned by the government and not him physically, Bundy believes that he should not have to pay the taxes put on him, which is ridiculous because the cattle are his property and he is responsible for them, it's kinda like having kids I think, just because the kids(cattle) run off and do something you are held responsible(Bundy). He is just trying to find a way to not pay these taxes and his actions can and probably will lead to more people supporting him and the idea of no government.
ReplyDeleteI do not believe that Cliven Bundy is a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage." Because that sounds like such a discriminating name. But still, you can't forget the fact that He is no different from any other hard working person that owns land under the law. I think he's right when he says his people were there before the law but at the same time, it's too late. You can't just get rid of the law now.externally, there are now a lot of people following mr.Gundy. He went from having little to no proponents, to quite a few.
ReplyDeleteI believe Cliven Bundy would be considered a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage." It's not fair to other ranchers that Bundy can go so long without paying tax but other ranchers have too. As to his claim that his people were there before could be valid but at the moment is just invalid and too late to be used. Externally, Buddy has put himself so far in the already deep hole he is in and should stop fighting the government and find a way to start paying the tax. It's already set in the governments mind that it is their land.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Cliven Bundy isn't special and doesn't deserve to be treated that way. He's right when he says that people were around before the law. However, there's nothing you can do toc change that now.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Cliven Bundy is a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage". Bundy's claim that his people were there before the law came into effect so he doesn't have to pay is a little out of hand. I understand that his people were there before the law was put into effect but he still needs to pay the tax as does everyone else. Bundy's actions cause the externality that make him gain followers through his actions, and people who think they understand the claim but are uneducated so they do not realize that it is unfair. He wants to get out of paying the tax but continue to keep his cattle.
ReplyDeleteAll of this actions encourage people join him to be willing to fight against the Government more than ever.
I believe Cliven Bundy is a "Welfare Queen of the Purple Sage" and not a "Libertarian Hero". His claim that he should not have to pay gazing fees because his people didn't before it was law, is absurd. Bundy is just trying to justify his already knee deep argument and must formulate a somewhat coherent point to the media. What is also unbelievable is the support Bundy is getting. For example, rampant conservatives ready to fight off government official with force and Hanity of Fox News who supports and defends Bundys hypocritical views.
ReplyDelete